Traveling by Train & Sustainable Travel Tips

Clara
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Meggan: [00:00:00] hey everyone, and welcome back to the Travel Mug podcast. We are excited for today's episode to welcome Clara Francken. Clara host the podcast Travel Devil podcast, but she also does so much more.

She's a content creator, marketer, YouTuber, eco-friendly traveler and to her advantage is also multilingual speaking Dutch, French, German, English, and Turkish and color me super impressed. Clara, welcome to the show. We are so glad that you've joined us.

Clara: Hi. I'm so happy to be on the show, and thank you for this nice introduction.

Meggan: pleasure. So I wanna dive right in. For our listeners who are not familiar with you. So tell us a bit about your background, sort of a snapshot of Clara, so our guests can get to know you. Like, who is Clara?

Clara: Um, I mean, that's a big question. I think I am a curious person, generally speaking. I love talking to people. I love getting to know new people. I love traveling. I. I'm quite outgoing, so [00:01:00] I like to be outside among people and not, not such a great person by myself alone at home. Yeah, and I travel a lot.

I try traveling more sustainably in the last years. Um, I'm based in Europe, which. It makes it obviously also more easy to travel by train a lot. 'cause I know that in some countries or continents, this is not the case. Um, but yes, that's one of the things that I really try to focus on lately on my social media and in my personal life. Um, which is actually what it started.

Jenn: Yeah, I think that I love that and it's something that, uh, Meggan and I are also pretty passionate about, uh, sustainability, but it is difficult to travel by train and public transport, unfortunately, where we live. Like, it's just really, really hard. So, great thing to focus on, for sure.

So where are you from originally?

Clara: So I'm from Belgium, from Ghent, and that's my hometown, [00:02:00] and I live in Germany at the moment in Lippstadt which is in the former, former East Germany.

Jenn: Okay. And so how did you end up living in Germany?

Clara: Erasmus. So I did like this exchange during my studies. So basically, just as a background information, in Belgium we speak, uh, multiple languages, which is also what you already talked about when you were introducing me. But my mother tongue is actually French, although I live in the Dutch part, so I'm already bilingual.

And at school we can, we will also learn, uh, the second and third language. And the third language is German. And although not all schools teach German, because it's such a small part of our country, um, and our country is already pretty small. We, we don't have to learn it at school, but I was like, how cool is it to know like the three languages of our, of our country?

Um, and then I went on [00:03:00] another exchange. Which is Turkey where I then learned Turkish and I came back and I started studying communication at university and every time I was trying to speak German, Turkish would come out. It was just like something got erase in my brain and I was like able to like not able to speak language.

I was able to speak anymore and that's how I was like, okay, I need, I need to get myself to Germany 'cause I'm not good at sitting with books and trying to learn grammar. Um, I need to speak with people again. And that's how I learned Turkish in Turkey and that's how I wanted to learn German in Germany.

So that's how I chose Germany. Then there were multiple cities we could choose from, um, when I was going through the list of the university, because it's like a university exchange. So basically I continued my studies. It was not an interruption. It was not like a break. Um, so I just had to find like a university with the courses that align with my courses [00:04:00] and I had to take a little exam to say that I know like the very basic, um, but like that exam was not so representative I think.

'cause I definitely didn't understand everything my teachers were saying at the beginning. But um, yeah, I moved to Germany for that reason.

Meggan: And maybe you just answered this question, but I don't wanna assume anything. So talk to us then about how you actually fell in love with traveling. Did that come through this exchange that you started doing? Or how did you actually fall in love with wanting to see sort of other parts of the world?

Clara: Ooh. Um, I think that goes even more back. Um, 'cause again, Belgium is a small country, and we don't. As a family and a lot of belgiums would be able to confirm. We don't travel so much in our own country. We go a lot abroad. We go to France, which is like our direct neighbor country. Or we go to Spain or Italy.

Me and my family, we [00:05:00] went a lot to Sweden and Norway, so this would be like our summer holiday and then the winter we would go skiing to Italy or, or France basically. So that would be like two holidays per year, uh, when I was a kid. And I think a lot of, um, belgiums have the same. And I think that was probably what kind of sparked my interest for traveling, just seeing other places.

I remember one of the holidays I did was a, when I was a kid, um, like one that really stuck by me was, uh, when I was in Sweden and we went camping a lot, but for one time we, instead of camping, we rented a little place. It was like a garden house, but more bigger than a garden house. Somebody was living and they had like their second house on their land basically, and they had kids.

And um, I had like this little dictionary. It's not called a dictionary, like the, the, the words in Swedish and like Dutch. It was like a translation book. [00:06:00] Um, that's a dictionary. Is that, no,

Jenn: I think.

Clara: a better word for this.

Meggan: can't

Clara: English is not my first language.

Meggan: even think of the word of what it would be right now, but we get to the gist of

Jenn: Yeah.

Clara: Yeah. So, so that was me and this little kid playing games, like this whole holiday. I was like playing with a little girl. . And we were the same age. We didn't speak the same language, but we tried to like interact so much. And I just never forget that moment because it was such a beautiful, um, experience.

And after that I always wanted to go back, but of course my parents wanted to see other places. Um, but I think that was one of the moments where I realized that I really like not only seeing places, but interacting with other people and getting to know other people because. And then again, languages opens doors.

I mean, if I wouldn't have learned German, I wouldn't have known a lot of my friends. Um, yeah, same when you could travel everywhere. If you only speak English, I mean, I know for you guys it's like your mother tongue. Um, [00:07:00] but it's, it opens doors, definitely. And that's, that's something that, that really sparked my interest when I was young already.

Jenn: I love that. And I think as a Canadian, um, we're jealous that you can just go easily to other countries for holidays. 'cause for us it's like a long trip to, um, so that's, uh, yeah, that's a big difference. And I think here too, like a lot of canadians and especially where we live, sort of east coast like Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. A lot of us do learn French, in school, at least like a basic amount. I did, um, I did all of my junior high and high school and French, but of course when you're not using that language, um, you do tend to like lose it a little bit. So I've been trying to practice my French a little bit more. I've ended up kind of trying to watch more videos in French and like just try to absorb that a little bit more.

And we are traveling to, uh, Quebec this year and so I'll get a chance to [00:08:00] practice which will be, will be lovely. But it was so funny when you said, um, that you were speaking one language and another language came out because anytime I've tried to learn Spanish. I start speaking French.

Clara: I can totally relate. Yeah.

Jenn: like, or it becomes like a mashup of like two languages and then nobody knows what's going on. Oh, definitely. So, uh, let's talk about for you, um, that you've been focusing on, like sustainability and traveling differently. What does that mean to you and, and how and when did this become important to you?

Clara: Mm. Sustainability is a word that obviously I wasn't using as a kid. Um, but I think nature always played a big part of my life. Um, I loved animals. I always had a cat, well, two cats at home. Um, I was big into horse riding as [00:09:00] soon as I was, I think I was nine or 10 when I started horse riding, and I was riding horses like three times a week. Um, so I was like big into animals and I quickly became vegetarian because of this. 'cause I saw that you could eat animals, uh, or I realized it.

Jenn: Yeah.

Clara: Like all of a sudden I was like, what? No. Um, people are eating horses. Uh, why, why are people eating horses? Why are people eating cows? Uh, why are people eating any animals?

I wasn't thinking so much about a fish. They were less cute, I guess. And so in the beginning, I was just vegetarian, like pescatarian is the correct word. Um, but basically I think that's where it's. All started for me and then when I started traveling, obviously I was like everyone else. Um, in like as a student, you don't have so much money in Europe, it's very cheap to travel by plane very cheap. So, um, it would [00:10:00] be more expensive for me to take the train to the airports than to take the plane to another country.

Jenn: Wow.

Clara: I mean, that's crazy.

Jenn: is.

Clara: , so that means that after my exchange in Turkey, 'cause I lived in Turkey for a year and I came back. I wanted to visit all of my friends, all of these amazing people I'm I met were also foreigners. Obviously going to Turkey was a bit further away, but a lot of my friends were from Italy, for example.

Um, so I, I wanted to see them in Italy and then it was only like. I dunno, 15 euros flights. 15 euros.

Meggan: That's- okay.

Clara: So

Meggan: mind boggling.

Clara: yeah. So obviously I'm flying. Come on. Um, yeah. And then when I went to, on the, like on my Erasmus in Germany. Even then at the beginning, um, the first time I went back and forth because it was like I was here for a whole semester and it was during [00:11:00] Christmas times as well, so I wanted to go back and forth between Christmas and I took a flight and that's kind of where I started already, like being more invested in sustainability.

And I remember like that flight and I was like, it's actually not so far away. Why am I, why am I actually flying? Like I drove here by car. For more obvious reasons because I had a lot of stuff with me. But like to fly back and forward between like, for my holidays. Why am I taking like a flight that's not even taking one one hour in the air?

Why am I doing this? And that's when I started doing research, talking a lot with friends about this, like exchanging experiences. . A couple of my friends were already taking more, uh, sustainable means of transport than me. And I was like, yeah, but it's gonna be expensive. Right? And obviously in a lot of European countries, uh, sustainable travel is expensive if you buy it last minute, but if you buy your tickets ahead of time, it doesn't necessarily is sustain, [00:12:00] uh, is.

Expensive. I mean, comparing again to the same distance, Berlin to Belgium, Brussels is then the, uh, end destination. I found tickets for 17 Euros 50, 17, 50 for the train, and I arrive from city to city. I don't need to get to an airport.

Jenn: Yeah.

Clara: So it is definitely, I mean, this. It's more, more affordable. You just need to plan ahead.

Um, so I don't know if that answers your question, but that's like a broad, a broad

Meggan: Yeah, no, I think that makes

Clara: roads

Meggan: think.

Clara: on how I got there.

Meggan: what you said makes sense though, because I last minute, things are always going to be more expensive, but when you start having those conversations with other people already doing it and they're able to share what they're doing and then it sort of starts the wheels turning.

That's how a lot of things happen. And I think, you know, mentioning traveling by train is interesting because I think. For myself, we're going to to Italy hopefully next year. , [00:13:00] and I would like to travel. Of course, I cannot take the train there, but once we're there, I'd actually like to try to do most of the trip, uh, by train within the country. So. Just in general though, what tips do you have for someone who wants to travel more by train or public transportation? Of course, you mentioned planning ahead if possible, and buying your tickets early. Any other tips you would say you'd have for someone trying to sort of adopt the same idea? I.

Clara: Yeah, I mean, the first one would be if you're traveling for less than 1000 kilometers, then try to take the train or the bus. You know, you don't need to take a plane for less than 1000 kilometers. So I think that's like a general rule of thumb you can use. Obviously, You can also look at other things like buying your tickets ahead of time, looking in, looking if there's, uh, some discount codes.

Sometimes you can find, um, discount [00:14:00] codes, not only, um, in certain periods of the year. For example, uh, I think. There's like in the period where now there's a Euro, Eurorail, Eurorail, I think it's called Eurorail, for outside of Europe and for us it's called Interrail. So they have tickets that you can buy for traveling into in one country, which is really easy 'cause you can just hop on any train in the country or to travel across Europe by train and you pay this ticket once and then you can just use it on any train. Sometimes you need seat reservations, um, 'cause some trains and I know in Italy sometimes can be tricky. Depends on where you are and what train you want to take.

You need extra reservations. Um. You need to pay something extra, but you don't need to pay like the full ticket price because you have like this general ticket. And, um, for example, Interrail Eurorail, they also have sale periods, so I'm not sure, uh, they don't publicly [00:15:00] say, uh, when the sales are starting and when they're ending, um, in which month that is.

But if you're not in a hurry, you can check out these kind of this website like once in a month. Just like open a website, see if there's a sale, and then continue with your day. It's not, um, not such a big thing. Or go to the website of the state you're visiting and then check if there have some discounts.

There's also Trainline, Omio, and other websites which are for buying tickets. So instead of you having to go to the official, uh, state owned. A lot of times these are state owned companies. You just go to a more general website like Omio or Trainline, and you can buy your tickets over there. And then they basically sell you the tickets. They, you don't need to look at all of these other countries websites. They make it a bit easier. They do ask for a little fee at the end when you check [00:16:00] out, so you do final price. It might be a bit more expensive, but it's only a couple of euros, so that's also a good tip. And then we'll also look at buses.

I mean, I prefer trains definitely, but sometimes a bus is really, really cheap as well. Uh, so FlixBus is a big one in Europe. I've got a love/hate relationship with FlixBus. , but they do the work and they're cheap. Um, and it's definitely more sustainable than flying. Uh, you can also go car sharing.

I love BlaBlaCar

Jenn: okay.

Clara: Which is also a European thing. I guess you guys in Canada have something similar, but with another name. Basically it's a website where you can go on and say, I'm looking for a travel between where I live now. Lippstadt, and Berlin for tomorrow. I'll probably find someone who's. Who also drives this way, but they have like a couple of seats free on their car.

So [00:17:00] they will say like, oh, if you pay, uh, like, 'cause it's 15 euros or something, you can hop, hop with me on the, on the, on the car. Sometimes they pick you up. Sometimes you need to be at a pickup point. Um, but it's really easy. You can chat with the person and it's like, um. Yeah, it's a bit more arranged than if you would go hitchhiking because then you're not sure if you'll find someone.

Obviously you can also go hitchhiking. I don't have so much experience with it 'cause I like to, um, I like to plan a little bit more, and want to make sure that I arrive at a certain time, at a certain, on a certain day. Um, so yeah, I think those are the tips that I'm thinking of right now.

Jenn: Yeah, that's, uh, those are really great tips. And it's so funny you mentioned hitchhiking. 'cause like I think hitchhiking is illegal here. Like I don't think, yeah, I know in Canada I don't think you can do that, which is just interesting. Uh, I had no idea that you could do that in Europe and [00:18:00] it was fine.

Clara: Okay. I didn't know it could be illegal. I mean, how can they even check that it's that somebody's doing hitchhiking.

Jenn: you just can't be is, are you googling this? Meggan did. I'm like, did I make this up? Did my parents lie to me?

Meggan: it says, so it does say, uh, the AI overview, so we'll need to just verify. But quickly, it does say there isn't a blanket, federal law against hitchhiking in Canada. However, several provinces and municipalities have bylaws or laws that do prohibit it, and some highways have restrictions.

Jenn: so, okay.

Clara: Okay.

Jenn: depends on where you are apparently.

Meggan: we know the rest of the story.

Clara: Hmm.

Jenn: Oh, that's super interesting. Yeah, I definitely wish that we could travel, um more by train in Canada. And I think that for a lot of North Americans, it's not our first thought [00:19:00] when we're going on vacation or traveling because it's so hard to do here that we just assume that we need to either fly or drive somewhere in Europe and, and we probably should be thinking train first or public transportation first before we're going to, um, those other options because it is, uh, like much more sustainable and like can be cheaper because renting a car, you know, if you were to, if we were to fly to Europe and rent a car, it's expensive to rent a car and of course pay for gas and all of those things as well. So. Definitely something that as North Americans, we should keep in mind when we're planning travel in Europe. Uh, all right, so let's like switch gears a little bit. You have a travel podcast. Tell us about, uh, travel Devil Podcast and, how that came about.

Clara: Okay. Um, yeah, [00:20:00] well, I started my podcast a bit more than a year ago, um, after first making YouTube videos. So actually I started sharing a couple of my stories on YouTube. I was, um. Interviewing also people about their ways of sustainability traveling during Covid. Um, and I was making YouTube videos from it, but I was talking to people for like more than an hour conversations, and then I was editing it to like a seven minutes YouTube video, which needed to be entertaining with a lot of visuals so that people will watch it.

And it worked. Like a couple of my videos went really well, but it was such hard work to make it look somehow like good enough for people to want to watch. 'cause nobody wants to watch like a Zoom call. Uh, so, yeah, and then I was like, okay, I do so much work and in the end there's a seven minute video and then there's people asking questions and I actually, I [00:21:00] already asked these questions as well, but they just not, they just didn't make the cuts.

Um, so they were in the original video, in the original conversation. So that's when I started thinking, okay. Now come also with the fact that I'm working and I'm not a student anymore. I've. I wanna be a bit more mindful of my time. And I was like, okay, let's, let's switch it up. Let's, uh, focus more on podcasting.

And I, I think I was thinking about having a podcast for about a year before really starting it. 'cause um, I was trying to make up my mind on how I would do it, what it would be about. But then the most obvious answer would be that it's just about the thing that I love doing the most, traveling sustainably and talking to people.

So that's what it is. Um, I have a couple of solo episodes where I share some tips or share some stories of my own, but most of my episodes are with podcast guests.

Meggan: Excellent. And besides that, you offer a lot of services as well, so [00:22:00] such as content creation, product promotion, video production. Website optimization and more so do you consider yourself a digital nomad? Do you sometimes travel while you work as well? Like what does that lifestyle look like for you?

Clara: It is flexible and I love flexibility. Um, I don't know, I never used the word digital nomad for myself, to be honest. Like, um, this is a first, uh, hearing that on like, combined with me, but it makes sense. I think the biggest one for me is that I can be where I want to be. And what I maybe didn't mention so much in, uh, until now is that I do travel a lot between Belgium and Germany.

So I'm from Belgium, I live in Germany. I live, I still live in Germany. 'cause after my Erasmus. During my Erasmus, I met my, my boyfriend and, um, still going. So I'm still here, but I still want to see my family a lot as well. And because it's so close to each other, I travel a lot back and forth. [00:23:00] So that's why I don't know if I see myself so much as a digital nomad, because most of my travels on by train and I do take my computer, I take my work with me.

I, and I'm very flexible. I've got clients in both countries. I mean, but I can just like travel, travel from one to the other. I mean, last year I was also like traveling in Italy by train. Um, and I also took my computer with me and I was working in the kitchen of my friends who I was staying at. So it's all possible.

I prefer to be in a stable environment for the, the long run. 'cause I feel like I can focus more if I am like behind. Um. At the same desk. But this can also be beneficial. It can also be beneficial for me to travel by train and to work in the train. 'cause sometimes for some things I'm like super focused on the train.

I don't need internet. The internet of the train doesn't isn't great. So I'm [00:24:00] like, yeah, like I'm working like seven hours editing this little video. And that's. That's amazing that I can do this on by train, like on the train, like while I'm traveling. And, and I don't think this would be possible even comparing it again to flights.

Um, I mean, you're waiting for your flight, you're taking your flight, you're waiting for your luggage all of the same time. In the end, you're also seven hours, um, somewhere on the road, but you cannot use the time. And I'm able to use a time when I'm traveling, which is, um, a big benefit as well besides sustainable aspects.

Um. Yeah, I don't know. I think I might be a little bit of a

Meggan: am

Clara: digital nomad.

Meggan: if you're not a digital nomad, you're at least a digital nomad adjacent like you are ish. You are close.

Clara: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I will take that. I'll take that.

Jenn: I think like Meggan and

Clara: I.

Jenn: are similar, that we like both, love to travel, but we also both love having like [00:25:00] a home base that we come back to. I can't imagine, like I. Always traveling and always being new and also trying to work. But it's, uh, it is really nice to be able to just pack up your laptop and go

Clara: yeah. Yeah, I think so too. And I think for me, it's also good that in Belgium and in Germany, like in both of these countries, I have like a stable place. Like at my mom's place, I know I have a desk. Um, and here I have, I'm sitting at my desk, you know, so that's, that's really, really great to have. And I think also something else is like friendships.

I feel like for me, it would be difficult to, to travel all the time because I am a very social person and I love seeing my friends and if I'm, if I'm not able to see them, I have realized it with all of my friends from Turkey that I, I knew during one [00:26:00] year I had such great bonds with, and now it's been almost 10 years that I haven't like lived there.

Obviously I went visiting them. Um, but it was just, yeah, it's not the same. And these kind of friendships is amazing when you can kind of like create long-term relationships with people and that's also why I like returning to same places and that, or visiting friends. Like if some, if some of my friends move to another country, I will definitely visit them and then I'm solo traveling to them, but I'm actually visiting my friend over there.

Jenn: Yeah.

Clara: So that's, A lot of my travels actually are actually visiting friends who live abroad.

Jenn: Yes. And yeah, like you said, it is really hard to maintain long-term friendships if you are constantly moving from place to place. And I think that is one of the, the drawbacks of being a true, like long-term traveler, digital [00:27:00] nomad. When you're only in a place for a couple of weeks or a couple of months, like yeah, you might meet some people, but you don't get to like really form that like strong relationship with people, it's always seems to be like surface level kind of relationship. So that, that is a really interesting drawback to, to, uh,

Clara: Mm-hmm.

Jenn: a lot or being a digital nomad.

Meggan: So part of

Clara: Yeah.

Meggan: is product promotion. Do correct me if I'm wrong though, but, so talk to us about the process and like how do you decide what products you will promote or review, like. How does that work for you?

Clara: Okay. I'm a, I'm still a newbie, um, for that part. I, I wouldn't say that. I mean, definitely a part of what I do. Also, um, includes product promotion, but until now, I'm not the biggest person like [00:28:00] with these kind of things. At the moment, I'm actually searching for partnerships. Um, it doesn't have to be a product, it can also be a service or something else.

And for me, the most important thing is that I'm doing long-term things. Like I want to work with a brand that I stand for, that I like working with, that I'm using anyway. I mean, it's part of my life already. Um, and not because they're, they're willing to send me some. I dunno, some earplugs. Um, and these earplugs are sustainably made and it's wonderful, but I'm, I don't want to promote earplugs one day and then promote a water bottle the next day.

So I think for me, this is really important and at the moment I'm looking for a couple of, uh, and I'm having conversations with a couple of companies about exactly this subject 'cause. For me, I think a lot of people, they do this affiliate thing and I've also done it in the past, um, that I am trying to work with affiliate links or that I only make.[00:29:00]

Uh, I make a video and then the goal of them is that they will have like a lot of sales with people using the code. Clara 20. But I am gonna be honest now and my listeners who are sustainable, they also are people who don't need to buy a lot of things. This is not like the biggest consumption, um, consuming people, you know?

Jenn: Yeah.

Clara: So I think it's important. Obviously sometimes they need something and if I, if I always talk about like the Deutsche Bahn, like the German railway, a lot of my friends and people like DM me on Instagram to have tips on inter for interrail. They have, they want tips for um, oh well interrail, I said Deutsche Bahn tickets, like train tickets.

Everything about Ted. I do get messages from people because they. Are interested in the subject, they know that I know a lot about it. And then, um, I think [00:30:00] that's why, for example, now my first biggest collab with Deutsche Bahn, um, was like the perfect match for me. 'cause that makes so much sense. And it's so much better than everything else. Like if it's a small product.

Jenn: Yeah, I think that it can be hard as a content creator to like keep your integrity intact and not just take money from any company that's offering to, um, do a collab with you. And I think that's really admirable that you are being really intentional with the companies that you want to work with and promote because it can be really hard to, uh, trust people who are just constantly promoting. You know, a bunch of different companies, like do they actually use this product or did they just get paid to hold it one time in an Instagram [00:31:00] photo? Yeah. So I think that's really important, especially in this now where there's so many more content creators than there used to be. Uh, so yeah, I think that's really admirable and I'm

Clara: Yeah.

Jenn: doing that.

Clara: Thank you for saying that. And I think one thing that I want to mention here as well is that sometimes people think we get paid a lot for like doing some advertisement. There's no payment. A lot of the time. It is just like, here, we're sending you this product for free. I'm independent since like one year now.

If I get a product for free, I pay taxes on this.

Jenn: Yeah. Yeah. So you're like

Clara: So I pay to receive a gift and then I have to post about it. I, I mean, you know,

Jenn: yeah,

Meggan: you.

Clara: make sense. That's not benefiting me anymore. So, yes, of course there are some people, uh, some companies who do pay and that's amazing. And, um, I think those are the ones who also, like, they should, they, they should continue because, um, [00:32:00] content is not free.

A lot of people think we can create this stuff and we're all students living the life, uh, and we are happy to receive some free gifts. And of course, in the beginning we were flattered and happy and. Me too. I'm still not such a big content creator. Um, but I also realized that I need to pay the bills and I, I dunno, I want to pay my train tickets, you know, and receiving gifts doesn't pay the, pay the tickets, so I cannot travel with that only, um, yeah.

Jenn: Yeah.

Meggan: makes sense.

Jenn: Yeah, this is a, a big conversation that should be happening because people don't realize how much work goes into, uh, one YouTube video or one even like, you know, TikTok or Instagram reel. Like those can be hours of work, and if you're not getting paid for it, um, to promote this [00:33:00] brand and you're actually paying taxes on the, the thing that you've received, then like, what is the point?

Like what's the benefit? So yeah, I think, like you said, people think that like, oh, this is great. I just get free stuff all the time. But just not how it works.

Clara: Unless you're maybe selling all the free stuff afterwards, but then you already need to get something with a lot of worth.

Meggan: Yeah, that Yeah,

Jenn: water bottle sale isn't gonna be, be, be very big for you.

yeah, No, maybe not, but maybe a bicycle.

There you go. Yeah. All right. So, uh, before you go, where can listeners find you online and follow along with your travels and your podcast?

Clara: So they can find me on Instagram. That will be the easiest way to reach out to me personally at, at Clara Francken pronouncing it my way, Clara Francken in English. Um, [00:34:00] and. I am also on with my podcast. . I am on all podcast platforms so you can find Travel Devil, the podcast on Spotify, Amazon, apple Music.

All of the other applications, um, on YouTube as well, actually. And you can find my YouTube videos about sustainable travel where I just also take you with me on the road sometimes. Uh, yeah, just under Clara Francken,

Jenn: Great. Yeah.

Clara: that, those would be the most places, the best places to find me.

Jenn: We'll make sure that all of those links, uh, to all those places are in our show notes so that anyone listening can just go click and follow you there. And one last question. Where are you traveling to next?

Clara: Actually the us.

Jenn: Oh,

Clara: so that's not sustainable. I'm not, I'm [00:35:00] not swimming there.

Jenn: Yeah.

Meggan: can't be sustainable every single time.

Clara: But I will take the train between Chicago and New York, um, which will be the first, um, train that I'm taking outside of Europe, I think even so I'm excited about that. It will be Amtrak. Um, so 20 hours on the train will be a night train. We'll see how it goes. I've heard there's some delays sometimes, but I'm used to delays in Germany as well, so we'll see.

Jenn: Oh

Clara: about it.

Jenn: I'm excited to follow along and, uh, see what you think of that experience of traveling by train in North America versus, uh, versus Europe. So I think that'll be really interesting, uh, to

Clara: Yeah, I think so too.

Jenn: Alright, great. Well that is it for this week's episode of the Travel Mug Podcast. Thank you again, Clara, for joining us, and we hope that you go check out [00:36:00] her adventures on her various channels.

And as always, thank you for listening to our podcast and for your continued support. You can find us online at Travel Mug Podcast on social media, on our website, travel mug podcast.com. And uh, we're wherever you find your podcast as well. So, until next time, safe travels. Bye everyone.