You Can Still Have Summer Fun In September

Jenn: [00:00:00] Hey everyone, and welcome back to the Travel Mug Podcast. So the summer traveling season is starting to wind down, especially where Meggan and I live here in Nova Scotia, which means it is shoulder season here. But what exactly does that even mean? What are we even talking about? So we are joined by Susan Catto, the head of publishing and production Canada at Travelzoo.

She is a renowned travel expert and writer, and here to talk all things shoulder season. Uh, welcome to the show. Yes.

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Great to be here

Jenn: Great. So before we, uh, kick off and learn about shoulder season travel, I wanna know how you fell in love with travel and maybe how you discovered shoulder season

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Well, I come by it honestly, as my, uh, my parents actually met on an airplane seated, uh, and one was window, one was aisle, and no one was in between when they were both, um, exploring, Southeast Asia. [00:01:00] So, I grew up with parents that loved travel, although we didn't travel, we didn't do any exotic travel ourselves, but they were, they both had either done it or were doing it for work.

So I, I grew up thinking, "This is a great thing that you can do when you become an adult

Jenn: Okay

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: and have money and time." So as soon as I did, I started to travel as much as I could. And of course I love it, and I'm also pretty frugal by nature. I love to save money. , And that was true even before I joined Travelzoo, where we are in the business of making it possible for people to travel more by, you know, making those trips less expensive. I was doing that myself, and that's why I was really drawn to shoulder season travel, because it does tend to give you the most bang for your buck

Meggan: Yeah, definitely. , So I guess then having said that, I think that's a really great introduction in terms of where you're coming from. But for our listeners, like what is shoulder season and how is that different from off-season?

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: shoulder season is basically the months right after high season or right before high [00:02:00] season. , So if summer is high season, then we're talking spring and fall, and then you would consider winter to be off-season. , And, you know, it's basically, like for a ski destination, winter might be high season and, uh, and then you're gonna be looking at the months right before.

Like, maybe you're gonna lookin- looking at, you know, October, November, um, and then April. , There are seasons when you're not sure if you're gonna get the, you know, the weather that the destination is typically known for in its most popular time, but, uh, you are sure you're not gonna get the crowds. And that's how I would describe it.

And it is different every, destination by a little, but it's, it's usually pretty easy to find out when that might be

Jenn: So how do, how do you figure out what shoulder season is for a particular destination?

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Well, sometimes it really comes down to what's the school season in that area. If it's a family destination, and that's true for something like, like Disney World as well, you can just say, "Well, when do kids go back to school?" You know they're gonna [00:03:00] be back to school in September, but also it's worth checking, you know, in a lot of American states, people go back to school in August, so late August is al- actually a great time for people to go to Disney with their kids who are not yet back in school if they're from Canada. And, uh, then otherwise, basically, you know, a, a, a simple Google search can help you figure out when it might be and also what the trade-offs might be for going at that time.

Meggan: Yeah, and I think you, you hit on something earlier that you may not get the weather you expected, but some people just automatically equate shoulder season with, quote-unquote, bad weather. So is that true? Can we bust a myth with that? Talk to us about that.

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Yeah, bad weather during shoulder season idea is, is a total myth. And for both positive and negative reasons. One of the reasons, I mean, obviously y- it can't have escaped anybody that, uh, high season in Europe this year has been marked by heat waves, and that's a really unpleasant aspect of travel. I would say that our climate is [00:04:00] just less predictable generally, so what people have considered high season may not have the good weather that that, uh, time is known for. Certain risks like hurricane season, those are real, but they are also just risks. They're not a guarantee that you're going to have, you know, hurricanes in September and October and November.

You could just as easily have beautiful, perfect weather. And, you know, I, I think that, um, chances are wherever you're going in shoulder season, it's gonna be warmer and nicer than it is in Canada at that time. So, , it's worth maybe taking a chance as long as you're aware that those risks exist. But I would say those risks exist all the time

Jenn: Yeah, I think you're right, and I I think bringing it back to the, the heat wave that happened or is still kind of happening in Europe right now, but it's, uh, the crowds and the heat make, like, Europe sound so unappealing at this time of year to me. Like, I just would never want to [00:05:00] go during high season, and, you know, luckily for, for us, um, we don't travel with children, so that's not something that we need to consider.

And so definitely whenever we go to Europe, I think Meggan too, like most of the time we would travel during shoulder season just to kind of naturally take advantage of, of these perks. Um, do you feel like there's a, a t- a type of traveler that benefits, uh, or enjoys shoulder season travel more?

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Yeah, I think it's the traveler who, um, obviously f- the, some of the things we've already talked about, like if you hate crowds and if you like to stretch your dollar. Those are sort of the very basic things. Then on a more, um, you know, f- personality style or philosophical or travel style, someone who can roll with the punches.

If you are, um, you know, know you can usually have a good time wherever you are, it's perfect for you. If your interests are wide enough that if [00:06:00] like one door closes, you can, you know, easily opt for something else and you're not gonna feel like your trip is ruined, that's fine. And I would say also it's really important that if you are traveling with other people, like you may be able to chill and roll with the punches, but if your companion is going to be complaining because it's raining and they don't wanna go to the museums, they wanted to go hiking, you know, they're gonna ruin your trip too.

So you wanna think about who you're traveling with. Shoulder season travel may not be as friendly for like multi-generational travel. If you're traveling with grandparents and young children, you know, that is going to be harder if things are closed or things, or the weather is bad, or things are just less predictable.

So someone who is flexible and an experienced traveler

Jenn: Yeah, I think that it, it depends on the trip too, right? Like, it depends on what you wanna do. Like, if you wanna do something that's only open during,

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Mm-hmm.

Jenn: you know, tourist season, I'm running into that right now. I'm planning a trip, um, [00:07:00] to Alberta, and there's some tours that stop running at the end of August, and we're going the first couple weeks of September, and we're like, "Well, darn," like, we're missing some of these things.

So

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Yeah

Jenn: though I think s- early September is, you know, still high season in my brain, I guess it's not there.

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Mm-hmm. No, if it's like your trip of a lifetime and you have things that your heart is set on, you know, do your research 'cause it may still be absolutely the same as if you went in high season, but it may not be. So you do have to do more research, if you're solo traveling for the first time, maybe that's, that's not the best idea either because you, you do want, you know, maybe there's safety in numbers or there's...

You, you don't wanna be around. If you're not used to traveling much, again, it may not be for you. But for the kind of people that do travel quite often, love it, it's not gonna be the one trip they're taking, you know, that, that year or in the, in the next two years, it's wonderful

Meggan: Yeah, [00:08:00] definitely. Now we've already, I think, talked about some advantages of shoulder season travel, which is a mouthful, I'm just gonna put that out there,

Jenn: Yeah.

Meggan: season travel. Um, we talked about sort of like less crowds, of course. Um, weather might not be at the height in terms of like scalding your skin off if it's mu- if it's too warm.

Like, those types of things are definitely advantages, but I wanna see, like in your opinion, is there anything we've missed in terms of talking about that could be a true advantage to peak season travel? Also price you mentioned as well. Anything else you think you wanna bring up?

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: I think you can have some, uh, luxury, uh, in the shoulder season that maybe you just wouldn't want to spend that much money for in the high season. You can stay in a place, , that will be maybe 30-- You know, tr- at TravelZoo, we always have beautiful places in-- that are not busy during the shoulder season that work with us, so we're offering, like, 40% off what you might pay another time of year. And so you can definitely stay somewhere nicer. What you save on [00:09:00] your flights and on your accommodation, you can put that towards something, you know, that you've always wanted to do. You can put it towards restaurants. And then I would say the other really big, um, thing that people might not think about is the restaurants. Assuming they're not, um, you know, gonna be closed for the season, the popular restaurants are usually so far in advance during high season that you may never get a chance to go. And if you do, maybe you'll be in a big, long line. Uh, if you go in shoulder season, they're gonna be really happy to see you because they're not full, and, uh, you, you are gonna be made to feel quite welcome, I think, at almost everywhere during shoulder season, , relative to a time when people are harried and stressed because they have so many, uh, visitors in town.

Jenn: Yes, having worked in a restaurant in a tourist town in Nova Scotia, I, I can confirm, service was much, much, much better

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Yeah

Jenn: when we weren't absolutely slammed.

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Exactly

Jenn: Uh, I would love to hear, uh, about a trip maybe that stands out that you've taken in the shoulder [00:10:00] season, and how it being shoulder season actually improved that trip

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: A, a couple years ago my husband and I went to Ischia, which is, um, off the coast of Naples, very close to Capri. It's almost like a dupe destination for Capri. And we arrived in early May, , and it really was shoulder season in that the hotel we were originally supposed to stay in actually wasn't done getting their preparations, uh, for the season.

So they put us in a sister property, which was so nice, like even nicer than the one we were planning to stay in. So that immediately was a super perk.

So there was this beautiful resort that was not busy at all, but had all the amenities all up to speed and running. You do wanna check that, you know, the, the place will be up to speed and running. And we really appreciated that they moved us somewhere that was like that instead of putting us somewhere that was just not ready to open. But as it was, we had, um, you know, things like the, you know, the hot springs to ourselves often. Sometimes we were the [00:11:00] only people around the pool. We were able to enjoy these amazing like meals and breakfast without the crowds, and to go around, um, Ischia really, a very, a feel that wasn't going to be there in a, in a few weeks when all the people started coming in.

And the weather was still great. Like, we literally were able to be out in bathing suits by the pool. So yeah, that was, that was one of our, you know, best experiences with shoulder season for sure.

Meggan: I've never heard of Ischia, so I'm gonna have to like look into this dupe. I love a dupe. That's amazing.

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Yes. They, they were very proud of this too. They kept saying, 'cause our, our trip came with like a day trip to... Our package came with a day trip to Capri, and we ended up not even going because so many people on Ischia were like, "Why? We have everything they

Meggan: Why bother?

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: we have here with no lines and half the price."

And, um, you know, and, you know, probably they were right for, for... We just thought, oh, it's so... Our hotel was literally that nice that we just thought [00:12:00] we're just gonna spend the day here instead of going to Capri

Meggan: you're passing on amazing tips, but so far that's my favorite, Susan. Okay, that's good to know. Awesome. So one of the advantages we've already sort of touched on is price, but just to dig into that a little bit, uh, deeper. So hotels, flights, tours, attractions, I guess we'll probably have to talk in generalities.

It will always depend on, like, where you're going. But are those things typically, uh, less expensive?

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: would say hotels definitely less expensive. And, uh, group tours, like if you are booking tour group that includes flights and so forth, also less expensive. Restaurants are not gonna be cheaper. Most tours will not necessarily be cheaper. Um, you know, airfare, it's really anyone's bet. In Canada, we don't have the advantage.

Like if, if, if we were in America, I would say, "Yeah, you're gonna get cheaper [00:13:00] airfare." In Canada, you just can't. Um, you know, go f- see... Book in advance when you see a sale, and that's how you're gonna get the best airfare. Um, there may be more availability to use things like points and to, um, to get an upgrade, uh, in, in the off-season Or in the, in the shoulder

Jenn: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, flights in Canada, uh, are such a fun game to book. Like, is, is this the best price? Maybe. Who knows?

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Who

Meggan: But you better book it now 'cause it might go up and that would be terrible.

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Yes

Jenn: Yes. I think we, we did touch on this a little bit, but, uh, do you have any more tips on how to make your travel budget go further during shoulder season? We did mention maybe, like, splurging a little to upgrade your hotel room or something like that

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Yeah, um, it's funny 'cause the biggest unexpected expense I've had on shoulder season travel is purchasing warmer clothes. so I would say what you save in, [00:14:00] uh, you know, th- what you're gonna save on your accommodation, you should probably spend that to check a bag that has sweaters, sweatpants. These are things that, of course, are gonna take up more room in your suitcase, but they are harder to find on trips, and they're more, i- i- it's more expensive to get yourself warm clothes than it is to just pick up some T-shirts, you know, from a local shop.

So I would say bring your, uh, warm clothes. That's, that's something to splurge on is, is extra luggage. And you can also, I think, you know, make your dollar go further by just doing things that maybe would be just unpleasant to do, like in high season. Like maybe you're gonna take more public transit, um, because you're not gonna be sweating and shoved up against people all the time. That's a good w- great way to save money right away

Meggan: Yeah

Jenn: yeah, that's a good tip. I wouldn't have thought of that. Um, uh, is there any instances where you think shoulder season doesn't save you money, besides buying new warm [00:15:00] clothes?

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: I think the big thing is thinking, "Am I gonna have the experience I wanna have?" You know? Um, if, if you want to see the whales migrating in Newfoundland and that's been your dream, and you go in shoulder season, maybe there'll be a whale, but, you know, you're really rolling the dice on something. Don't roll the dice on things that are really important to you, like a lifelong dream. And, and wildlife, they have their schedules. They're not going to, uh, change them for, uh, your visit. So, , that is something that can be, um, a disadvantage. And, I mean, I think the biggest, concern from a money angle is that you will not be able to take advantage of the things you wanted to take advantage of.

So say you are going on a beach holiday and it is too cold to spend the time by the beach and going in the ocean. You're gonna feel a little ripped off, you know? So just know in advance that these are possibilities that, um, that you have to keep in mind

Meggan: Definitely. And in your opinion, are there destinations where shoulder season gives you a better, [00:16:00] better experience, not just necessarily a, um, less expensive experience?

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: I would say, cities because the weather is much less important. Uh, all the attractions are usually the same. if you are someone who would be considering a cruise or like a cruise, cruise ships because you don't have to be outside. There's usually a ton of things to do. So places where there are a lot to do, and places where, uh, or the type of trip where you inherently have a lot of flexibility, such as a road trip.

If you are in control of how long you're staying in one place, where you're going, the next day, a road trip, um, allows you to tailor your trip, uh, to the weather and to the kind of experience you're having in a way that does come in handy during shoulder season. You really might decide to, you know, "Well, we're gonna spend less time here and more time there," and driving can, um, really make that easy. are the kind of trips I think is a lot to do [00:17:00] or a lot of flexibility built in

Meggan: Makes sense

Jenn: I agree. I think that cities are a good place to go in the off-season, and a- as you're talking, I'm remembering last year my husband and I, came to Toronto, uh, in November, so like, you know, off-season . Probably not even shoulder season, but off-season.

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Yeah

Jenn: but yeah, we got a really great, um, price on the hotel. We stayed at the Fairmont and had a really great experience and paid a lot less than we would have if we had gone during the summer. And we took a food tour, and we were the only two people on the food tour, and so the guide was able to, like, completely, um, tailor the food tour to us. We're, like, vegetarians. My husband has food allergies, so, like, it was an amazing experience, and I... That wouldn't have happened if we had gone, you know, in July, right

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: No, that is, that is very true. That's a classic example. You- those tours can be so much more fun because [00:18:00] you aren't with a, a lot of other people. I do wanna add a caveat since I was saying road trips were so great. things you need to consider is how, how comfortable are you gonna be on those roads?

How good are those roads? How familiar, how safe are you gonna be? 'Cause there's two things. Uh, one is, um, daylight hours. They're gonna be, likely in most cases, are gonna be shorter. Um, and, uh, the possibility of bad weather. So both those things can make it a lot harder to drive and a lot harder to drive at night and in the dark.

So I wouldn't do a road trip somewhere, um, where you are not going to feel safe on the roads, where maybe you'll be driving on the other side of the road or you'll be somewhere, like I was in Costa Rica recently, we would not have wanted to drive, uh, around, you know, because when it's dark, it is dark.

So that's not gonna be something that you're gonna wanna do if you're not absolutely comfortable on those roads. But, you know, if you're, if you're within Canada or something, it's fantastic.

Meggan: Definitely

Jenn: So let's talk a little bit more into the downsides and [00:19:00] how to avoid them. I think we've talked about some of the disadvantages throughout our conversation, but, um, are there any other, like, disadvantages or even, like, misconceptions that you can think of, uh, for shoulder season?

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: thing is to, to do your research and know what is going to be, um, closed or curtailed. And that, that doesn't just include attractions, that can also include restaurants. You do need to know, am I gonna be able to access, most of the attractions or most of the restaurants, or am I gonna be limited to a few chain places or, or grocery stores? That is a big one. And the daylight hours that I mentioned, that's a big one for sightseeing too. , I went to, um, Iceland with my daughter in November though. Like, that's more like off-season and, you know, it was only-- we only had daylight hours from, um, 10:00 AM to 5:00 PM, which really meant we had to plan our days very carefully, and we had to plan our nights. We found a movie theater, like a rep house that was showing, like, fantastic art films. We, we [00:20:00] went to that, uh, most nights because it was a great way to spend your night. So you want to know all that in advance. The, the other thing, I think, the downside that, can wreck your trip, of course, is things that are... like terrible weather, like a hurricane. So I usually think that in shoulder season it's very, very smart to buy travel insurance.

Meggan: Mm-hmm.

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: of course, you know, some people will never travel without it. Some people roll the dice or think, you know, maybe what they have on their credit card is sufficient. I think, like, if I'm going to the East Coast during hurricane season, I will buy specific, like hurricane insurance that, you know, if I'm renting a cottage or something. And usually I might say, "That's, you know, that's gonna be perhaps a waste of money." You know, like read the fine print before you buy it because, you know, and often, for example, in the case of hurricanes, uh, you usually will only be covered if there is like a named storm. Like,

Jenn: Meg

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Hurricane Jenn. Like, that will [00:21:00] cover- you will be covered.

But if it's just really bad weather, no name, um, you will not, even if, you know, you, you, you might feel the need to like evacuate your premises and so forth.

Meggan: Yeah

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: definitely consider insurance in all cases. And this is also a good time to, um, you know, maybe your flight is cheaper and maybe you wanna use that extra money to buy a, a flight that is refundable in some way.

Changeable without a fee or, refundable, um, so that you can actually change the dates. If, if you know, like a few days before you fly that it's going to be awful, see if you can change the whole time of your trip. Um, or maybe come back a little early and save, you know, some of, of your money for your next trip.

Meggan: Yeah, definitely. And I think that's some really good advice in terms of things potentially being closed. I think doing your research is just huge. We can all, we can all do that. If you have your heart set on something, you really should check in advance. I think you shouldn't [00:22:00] assume it's gonna be open or assume it's going to be closed, and those are also some great tips in c- in terms of like unpredictable shoulder season weather, proper packing, like you mentioned, insurances and stuff. I'd love to understand, have you ever arrived somewhere and realized that you, Susan, picked the wrong shoulder season?

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Yeah. When I was, uh, like a couple of... A long time ago, um, my mother and I decided we would take this-- I was living in England at the time. We saw this, we saw this trip to, um, Turkey. M-m- was based in, um, Marmaris, Turkey, uh, which is like a beach town, and it was actually cheaper to go for two weeks than one, so we're like, "Let's do that." And I think we arrived probably like in April, and it was so cold. But it was just past the point where they would have had-- where the hotel we were in, like they're like, "Oh, we turned off our heat on April 1." So they were freezing, and we actually had to change hotels because it was that kind of cold that,

Meggan: My goodness

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: you couldn't sleep at night [00:23:00] 'cause it was so cold, and the hotel had no heat. That I wish I had done a bit more research. I wasn't expecting to lounge on the beach in a bathing suit necessarily, but I, I was not expecting to be, like really need to bundle up, um, you know, the whole time I was there. And it ended up being a really great trip and we, you know, we rented a car and we drove all around. Um, and we-- I don't really remember the weather, uh, being a hindrance in any way except for that first few days when we arrived and were just shocked 'cause we had not, um, you know, brought the right clothes and we had not really been prepared.

Jenn: Yeah. I would have never have thought to check, "Hey, does the hotel turn its heat off on a certain day?"

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, and of course you, you wanna check air conditioning too if you're going somewhere where it might be unseasonably hot. And of course some places they have rainy season, um, and, uh, the shoulder season can be, um, you know, unpredictable. A lot of people will say, "Well, it's called rainy season, but you're only gonna get rain for three, four hours in the afternoon." And if [00:24:00] you're prepared for that, you'll save a lot of money, you'll miss the crowds, and you know, you can have a perfectly good time during some of those seasons anyway

Jenn: Hmm. Yeah, I've definitely, my, my husband and I are big Disney people, and so we've traveled to Disney at, at basically every, every season, every time of year. And, uh, we've definitely gone once where it rained the entire week. And usually Florida rain is like, "Oh, it's a couple hours in the afternoon, it's fine." But this was, like, full out the whole week. Uh, and it was, like, late, late spring, uh, early summer, and, uh, it, you know, it didn't ruin our trip, but, uh, it, it was a bummer. And I mean, I, I knew it going in, so I was prepared. We had our ponchos and we were okay. But, uh, you know, it, it is something to keep in mind.

So I think that sort of the, the overarching theme for shoulder season, and, and we think any travel, but especially shoulder season travel, is planning properly. Like, it's just so important. [00:25:00] So what research do you do and, and do you think people should do before they book?

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: I find there's a ton of information about shoulder season travel just, um, like on Reddit sites for any destination you go to. There's inevitably someone like every week practically saying, "I was thinking of going here in October. What do you think?" And you get people who are like, "That's the best time to go," and, "My family only goes then." And you find out what it is. But you might wanna watch for this and that, and this is closed, and that's closed. Um, so the, you know, your s- a simple web search is, is going to yield a lot of information, but if you really do drill down into some of these, um, groups that are dedicated, uh, where people are really commenting on their own experiences, you're gonna find a lot.

We have one, um, Travelzoo Nation, like on the Travelzoo Facebook page, uh, which, that you can join, that has a lot of, of people talking about their specific trips or answering questions from other members. So yeah, that's probably my, my first source of [00:26:00] research for like what is it really, um, going to be like?

'Cause otherwise you're in... You're, you know, you don't wanna go around Googling individual restaurants, like every restaurant in the city to find... That's not how you're gonna find out if this is a place where the restaurants are closed. The major sites, you do need to search for them. You wanna look at things like are there statutory holidays that, uh, you know, they have there that they don't have here?

That, you're gonna do that before every trip, I think. Um, uh, but y- things you may not think of that will be... Or like a major holiday that might be occurring that could close down things for a few days. That can kinda wreck your trip a bit. I think with some places you'll want to, like if you're mostly gonna be staying in one resort or hotel, you do wanna find out, again, y- you know, the internet is your friend here, are they usually doing repairs right up until like opening day, or are they open year-round?

Because if they're open year-round, you're probably gonna be okay. If they are closed in the off-season, booking something the first week or two that [00:27:00] they open, you are running a risk that they won't be completely done, and I've had that happen too. I stayed, you know, in a hotel in, um, Prince Edward County, uh, during shoulder season.

It had just opened for the season, and it was like a re- quite a bad experience in that, um, the, the, we were some of the only people in the hotel, so they didn't really put out much for the breakfast. They still had, um, like repairs going on all the time, so it was quite noisy, and at one point they're like, "We have to turn the power off for four hours today." We're like, "What?" You know? And oh, by the way, the cleaner, the cleaner has already, you know, they knocked on your door at like 10:00, but y- you didn't let them in, so they're gone for the day because you guys are kinda the only people here. So, you know, I, I would check to see is, is my property open year-round or is it just opening?

Jenn: Hmm.

Meggan: Good points

Jenn: Yes, I th- I'm,

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Like, you don't

Jenn: or

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: at the Overlook Hotel at the end of the, the holiday season with all the ghosts on your [00:28:00] own.

Jenn: lockin' the door behind you. Yeah, I I'm just thinking, I had friends that, um, were traveling in, I think, like shoulder season before things were opening, and, um, they were traveling with their kids, and the pool wasn't open at the hotel because they were doing maintenance, and like, you know, parents with little kids, it- that's really important.

So like, just ch- even simple things like that, like are all of the amenities at the place I'm staying going to be open are really important. Yeah

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: are traveling with kids, you absolutely have to call and make sure that the, that things like the pool or other facilities like that, or any parks or things that they'll be interested in will be open because... And that you, maybe that's also you wanna have a nice room where you

Jenn: Mmhmm

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: weather, too. Oh,

that's, that's a bad scene

Jenn: Yes.

Meggan: Indeed. Indeed

Jenn: Is there anything you do to [00:29:00] plan your itinerary differently in the shoulder season versus, um, high season travel?

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: I think I, you know, I, I, after my Iceland experience, I definitely learned to, to check the time of, of sunset and like, you know, are you going at a time when you really are going to need to take that into account? Um, usually in shoulder season it's not gonna be that dramatic, um, a difference. But it might be enough of a difference that you will, you'll wanna factor that into the kind of things you're planning to do, like, and the, the tours you want to leave, or even what time you want to arrive. That can be a factor too. I'm also looking at, um, definitely like just backup plans and I think flex- this is honestly, like the, the degree of flexibility you need to travel, I think in this day and age anyway, is quite high because things can be unpredictable and also because some of the greatest experiences you'll have on a trip [00:30:00] are not the ones you plan.

They're just, you know, kind of things you stumble into. So I think that the, the best thing you can bring is that open mind and that ability to roll with the punches. And sometimes that, like if you're traveling with kids, that means literally bringing, bringing along the iPads even if you're not gonna bring them out unless it's a rainy day. Or if, uh, if you're just on your own, bringing lots of books, bringing like an e-book instead of a whole stack of library books 'cause maybe you're gonna be spending more time, you know, indoors, uh, reading, than you thought you were gonna do

Meggan: Definitely. So those are some packing items. We wanted to ask you, are there any like must packs for you for shoulder season travel?

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Now sweatshirt, sweatpants, um, and, and shoes that you can wear in the rain and the cold. I wouldn't bring... Like, I don't bring sort of suede shoes or boots, uh, on my shoulder season travel, even though that might be, like, the, the height of fashion at that moment, because you don't know, is it gonna be wet, uh, and I'm [00:31:00] gonna run into trouble? I would also, uh, think must-brings are very light layers all the time. Like, that, that's handy for travel anyway, but this is, you know, a, a sweater is heavy, but a, a, like a, a, a nice, like, long underwear shirt is not heavy. So just, uh, make sure you've thrown all that in there, too. And rain gear. Um, you know, don't overdo it because you can often buy a lot of stuff in your destination.

It is not so crucial to pack an umbrella. But to pack a raincoat that, you know, y- might be, uh, more important to do. Um, and, and yeah, the, again, like the entertainment, um, and then the attitude. Pack your very best attitude

Meggan: I love that

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: And I really do mean leave the people that cannot travel that way, consider not traveling with them.

But like the way I would look at it, uh, is for, probably for a lot of the people listening to this, we travel every chance we get, and

Jenn: Yeah

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: get to travel [00:32:00] probably more than most people because we've found ways of like making that our biggest priority. That's where we spend our money, and that's where we spend our time.

But there are people that don't do that, and this trip might be a big, big, big deal for them. It is like maybe it is most of their vacation budget for the year. Maybe it is most of their vacation time for the year. You know, it, it is gonna be a bigger blow to them if things go wrong. So, that's... It's, it's a bit like, you know, if you, if you go to the movies and you see a bad movie, you're still gonna go back to the movies and feel great about the movies.

But if you go to the opera and it's much more expensive and it's something you do very rarely, and you go to the opera and it's terrible, you might get a bad feeling about the opera. So, think about is your, is the person you're going with, is it gonna be like a movie to them or is it gonna be like a trip to the opera?

Meggan: Right

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: opera, maybe shoulder season is not the time to go

Meggan: Choose your travel buddies wisely

Jenn: I love that. So before we sign off, where are some of your [00:33:00] favorite places to go during shoulder season?

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Um, I like beach destinations because they're usually less crowded. The weather is great. If you go to, like, kind of, um, you know, East Coast, uh... I grew up going to, like, uh, the Outer Banks, North Carolina. If you go in, like, September, the ocean's gonna be at its warmest. It's gonna be really amazing, and chances are the weather's going to be just as nice as it is in the summer with the added risk of hurricanes, so just factor that in and, um, you'd be covered there.

So the beach is always, uh, a great idea. Um, and then I think, Italy, uh, is a place I love to go. When I have gone in summer, I just can't see as much as I would like to see because it gets too hot. So I think, um, many European destinations I would put on that shoulder season list. They are absolutely fantastic, to see during those times, uh, for so many reasons

Meggan: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. We've, uh, we've done a few trips, uh, to specific European cities in [00:34:00] September a few years in a row, like Amsterdam as well as Barcelona. Both were still a little bit high season-ish. Like, it wasn't, it certainly wasn't over, but I think it was

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Hmm

Meggan: and I think it was a very much more enjoyable time, and the weather was still nice, and we still had a, a really great time, but we weren't there with, you know, half of the planet.

So that

was, that was really nice as well. Um,

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: forget Canada. Like, I've been really wanting to go to Vancouver Island, um, and I keep looking at the different options there. And you know, I, I know at Travelzoo We have tons of offers in the fall. Uh, I'm kinda waiting for those because, like, the hotels will be much more affordable. Tofino is very expensive in the summer, but it is much more reasonable in the fall and the spring.

And, um, you're going to get the same stretch of beach. The water's gonna be just as cold in, you know, in September and October as it is in the summer. Um, but y- the rest of the experience is gonna be, it's gonna be a lot more affordable, and you can spend more of [00:35:00] your budget on other things that you like to do.

Meggan: That's a great

Jenn: Al

Meggan: and having said that, where can our listeners find you online or more about Travel Zoo to learn more about your company or yourself?

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Yeah, um, travelzoo.com. It'll set you, send you right to the Canadian site. And, uh, uh, that's where you can find out about Travelzoo. We have lots of, also lots of like, um, like blogs and story content about different destinations, which is a great way, uh, to see them. And, um, yeah, that's... I, I write some of those, um, as well. So that's mostly where I can be found is, um, in the Travelzoo environment as well.

Meggan: Excellent. And you mentioned a Facebook page. Do you mind ta- uh, chatting about that again in terms of... 'Cause I think a lot of people go to Facebook, join groups to get other people's opinions or experiences. So can you mention that again as well?

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: so, uh, it's actually Travel Zoo Nation, our very large Facebook group, um, it is out of the US Travel Zoo homepage for

Meggan: Okay.

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: So

Meggan: Okay

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: look for that one, um, because we do have our own Canadian [00:36:00] page, but, um, we decided the biggest community would be like a global one. So that is out of the US site.

There are tons of Canadians on that site, and there's a lot of people, you know, talking about, um, different places to go, like within Canada and giving, sharing Canadian travel advice there as well. So that is, um, a really good place to go. The, um, the Travel Zoo Nation member group, um, on, on Facebook from the US page, highly recommending that

Jenn: Yeah, I'll, uh, I'll make sure that's linked in the show notes so our listeners can easily join in on the conversation there

Susan Catto – Travelzoo: Great

Meggan: Well, Susan, thank you so much for joining us. This has been super insightful conversation. Jenn and I are both big into shoulder season travel, so this is a great conversation for us as well. I'm, I'm certain that our listeners will find it useful. Maybe people have not considered shoulder season before or didn't really know what to classify as such and whatnot.

So I think it's gonna be super helpful. As always, you can find us on social media at Travel Mug Podcast, uh, our website [00:37:00] travelmugpodcast.com. To support the show, you can leave us a review or buy us a coffee. The link is in the show notes. And as always, don't forget your travel mug. Bye everyone.